Harmonies of Healing: Exploring Addiction Recovery Through the Art of Poetry with Greg Wooley

Join us for a heartfelt episode of the Waismann Method Podcast, featuring an insightful conversation with guest Greg Wooley, facilitated by hosts Dwight Hurst, CMHC, and David Livingston, LMFT. This episode delves deep into the harmonious blend of poetry and music as transformative forces in the journey of addiction recovery. Greg Wooley, a passionate poet, musician, and recovery advocate, shares his inspirational story of battling addiction and how creative expression became a cornerstone of his healing process.

Dwight Hurst and David Livingston explore the therapeutic power of engaging in artistic endeavors, offering listeners a fresh perspective on addiction recovery. The discussion illuminates how poetry and music can serve as conduits for emotional release and self-discovery, aiding individuals in navigating their way through the complexities of addiction and towards a more hopeful future.

Through their conversation, the importance of community, mentorship, and proactive engagement in creative activities is highlighted as vital components of a successful recovery journey. This episode is a must-listen for anyone touched by addiction, whether personally or in support of a loved one, providing valuable insights, uplifting stories, and practical advice on incorporating creativity into the path to wellness.

Tune in to be moved and motivated by the power of poetry and music in healing and transformation, as Greg Wooley and our hosts share their expertise and experiences in fostering recovery through artistic expression.

Podcast Episode Summary:

1. Introduction to Greg Wooley: Greg Wooley, a poet, musician, and recovery advocate, shares his extensive journey through addiction to long-term recovery, highlighting the therapeutic role of poetry and music.
2. The Role of Art in Recovery: Greg discusses how creative expression through poetry and music served as a pivotal outlet for his recovery, offering both a form of therapy and a way to communicate emotions and experiences.
3. The Concept of Recovery Schools: Greg introduces the innovative idea behind recovery schools designed for young people struggling with addiction, emphasizing the importance of providing a supportive educational environment that integrates recovery into the curriculum.
4. Personal Challenges and Triumphs: Through his personal narrative, Greg touches on his struggles with addiction, mental health, and his transformative journey towards healing and helping others.
5. The Power of Community and Service: The podcast emphasizes the significance of community support, mentorship, and giving back as essential components of recovery, highlighting Greg’s efforts in co-founding the Florida Recovery Schools of Central Florida.
6. Creative Outlets and Collaboration: Greg discusses his current projects, including collaborative music and poetry ventures and his active involvement in expanding the recovery schools initiative.

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Transcript:

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: Welcome, everybody. We are so glad to be with you. Thank you for listening or watching or however it is that you ingest this wonderful information. I’m Dwight Hurst, I’m a clinical mental health counselor and glad to be here co-hosting. This is, of course, a podcast to answer your questions on addiction, recovery and mental health by the Waismann Method Treatment Center and Rapid Detox. And as always, I’m always glad to be surrounded by smart, experienced and wonderful people on the show. It’s great to be exposed to any smart, wonderful and experienced people, especially in a in a tricky field like this. And we’re grateful to have an extra, extra smart person and good person here with us today as well. So let me, um, let me, uh, go around, just mention, uh, who we are. We’ve got our, uh, program psychotherapist, David Livingston here. David is a licensed marriage and family therapist and a leading expert in the field of addiction and of those mental health and underlying challenges that attend those issues for both individuals, families and couples. Um, and, uh, we have as well, a wonderful guest today who is Greg Woolley. Uh, Greg, we’re so glad to have you join us.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: I have, uh, some info about you. There’s a lot of good info because you’re a lot of good things. So good. Greg is the co-founder and chairman of the board for the Florida Recovery Schools of Central Florida, a nonprofit organization. I’m sure we’ll get into to some of the wonderful things you guys do there as well. And Greg is president of Woolley Brothers Incorporated and also a poet and a musician. Greg is the author of several inspirational poetry books centered around recovery and addiction, and uh, also has been setting some of those to music as well, to help people to have those outlets to process. I enjoyed that in your bio that you, uh, made sure to make a point with us that you are a husband and a father as well, that you’re with your wife, Monica, and your five children. Um, Greg is also in recovery himself and is dedicated not only to his own recovery, but to that of lifting up others who are fighting through issues of substance abuse, disorder and addiction. So, uh, Greg, welcome to the to the program.

Greg Wooley: Thank you. Dwight, what an introduction. You know, I’ve been thinking about my smart partners, and so I just started calling them “smartners”. Right? Smarter because I’m married up with my wife and my roofing partner. Has been has been a great asset to me, too. So I have some really good smart partners over the years that, uh, yeah, they make me look a little better.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: So “smarter” also sounds like some kind of product, like maybe a sweetener you can put in your coffee and it makes you smarter.

Greg Wooley: Market. We can market this “smarter”, right?

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: TM, we’ve got video and audio evidence that it was our idea, so. And, uh, and as always, David too. Thanks so much for being here as well. David, how are you doing?

David B. Livingston LMFT: I’m good. I’m good. Happy to be here. And, uh, um, here we go. Here we go again. Happy to have Greg here and looking forward to this discussion.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: Yes. Um, our theme today is exploring, particularly exploring how, uh, recovery can be enhanced by working through poetry, music, and also to highlight some of your experience and your story as well. Greg. And that, I think is a good way to start is could you tell us a little bit about the journey you’ve been on with recovery and, and what it was that influenced you to use art in the form of poetry and music to, to help with that?

Greg Wooley: Yeah. Well, I have the blessing to be a person in long-term recovery. I’ve been I’ve been in recovery for 33 years now. Whoo, whoo. You know, so that’s, you know, like a number of lifetimes. And I’m grateful. Really grateful for that. Um, as a young person, I was a train wreck of a young person. Um, drugs and alcohol took me a lot of places I never intended to go. One of the questions that we had talked about before was how the poetry come in, and, uh, I, I had, like, a full-blown psychosis about the middle of my senior year. And I don’t know if you’ve ever heard a clanging before. It’s a rhyming, a rhyming talk, and I don’t even know how I ended up there. And, you know, there are a lot, a lot of things that that I remember from that psychosis that you wouldn’t want to remember, but that was one of them. When I, I started talking in this rhyming, rhyming talk and I didn’t know where it come from. And you know, whether, um, there are some schools of thought that say that, you know, um, sometimes a psychosis is a spiritual emergency and, uh, but anyhow, um, I was diagnosed with a bunch of different diagnoses at that time. Um, I had a lot of child abuse in my history. Um, ended up in institutionalized with, uh, with, um, a diagnosis of bipolar and schizophrenia. And they, they signed me up for, for three months at one place and then sent me off to another place and took me off all the medication.

Greg Wooley: And by this time, I’m just wanting to go home, you know, because they didn’t they said I could be there for a long. Time and at 17 years old, looking out the windows of a state institution, thinking that might be your future. At that time, it was a really, really big state institution. It was really, really scary. And I became like the model, model, uh, um, patient and, uh, and they, they said, oops, you were misdiagnosed. You had a drug-induced psychosis. Um, don’t never drink again. Don’t never drug again. And, uh, that that wasn’t even in, you know, in my realms of not happening because I was I wanted to do at that time was get back with my friends and find some sort of normalcy again. But after you have a, a full-blown public psychosis where as normalcy even at and then thinking that you might be schizophrenic or whatever, whatever all the diagnosis is were um, and plus they didn’t really introduce me to recovery at that time, which seems strange to me now. Looking back, they didn’t give me any answer. They said, don’t drink, don’t drug again or you’re going to end up right back here. And then and then sent me on my merry way. And, uh, and I was already using on the weekend passes before, before I got all the way out and, um, started my series of geographical cures. And, um, that’s how I ended up moving from Pennsylvania to Florida and, and, uh, a couple more DUIs and suicide attempts, all the ugly stuff that goes along with, uh, with full-blown addiction.

Greg Wooley: And, um, uh, I ended up court-ordered Alcoholics Anonymous. And, you know, I hated those those beginning years, too. But the thing was, was, is, as there were some really active people in my area that were doing some really cool stuff, and they invited me into their circle, so to speak. And I got to see all that because I would talk. I would always say, I’m going to do this, I’m going to do that. And then you would introduce drugs or alcohol and all bets would be off, you know, because I would never end up pulling off what I intended to do. And I got to go deep sea fishing and do some other stuff that, that I had never done before. And, uh, and I ended up, um, with some really bad incidents after that where I attempted suicide one more time and, um, and I was just at a, at the broken bottom place, and, and that’s where I got introduced to my, my, uh, my, my first sponsor, and, um, and the rest is kind of history. I mean, we had a really active area in that time, and, and, um, and he introduced me to, to a life of service. That’s, that’s led me on the life of, uh, of, you know, living more, more dreams than I ever thought I would. You know, they talk about when we get when we come into recovery, that if we wrote down our dreams, you know, that we would shortchange ourselves. And I shortchange myself by far, by far, by far, you know, because I wasn’t I wasn’t, you know, I was married then because I had my hostage of a first wife, and she was more like my mom, you know, my caretaker, um, take care of all my stuff.

Greg Wooley: And then as I started to grow on recovery, we didn’t adjust. Well, we had we we ended up having to two children. And I ended up getting divorced when my, when my daughters were one and three. Um, but at that time, I had grown enough. Where I could say that I really love my ex-wife, but we didn’t work well together. And, uh. And then we co-parented really well from there. So I was, I was, I was blessed, a blessed divorced dad where I had my girls, um, that started out at one and three when we got divorced. And I had my girls five days a week. Um, and she, she was more she was more of a corporate woman. So I could have him in the afternoons, and she would pick him up at night and then take him to her home and and, uh, but but I was really blessed to have great relationships with my daughters. And, uh, that’s one of the things where the, where the, uh, where the poetry comes in, because I had, um, with, with the rhyming gift, I had a song for every, a parody for every, for every Christmas song. And my older daughter loved it. And my, my younger daughter hated it. So it was always a funny dynamic.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: As a dad, there’s kind of both goals, right? Right. We joke to make our kids laugh and we joke to make them go, ooh, yeah, they’re both great, both great reactions.

Greg Wooley: And so and so, um, you know, because and I’ve said before in my, in my life that I’m one of the, one of the only jobs that I ever really, really wanted was to be a dad in my life. And so I started, you know, after we got divorced and I was kind of, you’re kind if you’re a divorced dad, especially in those days, you’re in that precarious position where that might be taken away. So I will really, really cherish those all the time that I have with my daughters. And at the time I’ve been I’ve been a roofer all my life, and roofer and poet doesn’t even seem like they would go together. Right. But but, uh, um, at that time, my business, my, my roofing business was just starting, and I could be home by 12:00 every day, and I would pick up my girls at 12:00 every day. We would have some adventures in the afternoon, and then their mom would pick them up. And after after dinner pretty much every night. And and I did that for, for several years until, until I met my, my, uh, my, my true love. And we’ve been married for 20 years, ever since, um, you know, you know, over, over the time of serving, um, I just fell in love with helping other people. Um, I over the over that history. I mean, I had, I had a sponsor whenever we used to work with, uh, a lot more, a lot more active alcoholics, drunks in the beginning. And, and I did, uh, um, you know, the 12 step calls right from the beginning.

Greg Wooley: And, uh, but I got involved with Celebrate Recovery for about ten years in the midst of my midst of my, uh, recovery. And we had a we had a, um. Uh, um, a halfway house that would bring the guys getting out of prison. So I worked with guys for about ten. So I had my first ten years, and then I got divorced and then ten years in the church where I worked with guys getting out of prison on a weekly basis, and I was like, man, these people are just so, so broken, so very broken. And I was like, why isn’t there something, you know, because for me getting out of the institution, why isn’t there something for younger people? Because I had times where where I because of the teenage alcoholic I had, I had train wrecks at 14 and 15 years old where I said, I’m never going to do this again. And then you would put me back with my peer group of choice, and I would do it again. And then I would train wreck again. I would say, I’m never going to do this again. And then and then it just got worse and worse. Right. And I think that that’s what we, we do a lot of times, even still today, we don’t know what to do with the younger people. So we don’t have any opportunity. And that’s where the recovery school idea comes in.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: That’s something I’ve noticed, uh, as I’ve worked with young people and you look in the area and say, if you’re lucky, do you have a youth 12-step community or do you have a youth? But as far as programs go, uh, yeah, there’s it’s it’s very limited. A lot of times, especially proactive education, we might say, don’t do it.

Greg Wooley: Right? Just don’t do it. Yeah, yeah.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: And that worked really well for you when they told you to stop it and.

Speaker4: Right.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: No other support. Right? Yeah.

Speaker4: There you go. Yeah. Yeah.

David B. Livingston LMFT: The recovery schools are for for kids or what are they exactly?

Greg Wooley: So yeah like like that. Just like that David I, I was sober, I was I was sober 29 years and I’ve served in all kinds of capacities. I’ve served in the World service structure of of of the recovery programs and, and then, then in celebrate recovery, you know, and been to all the and I had never heard of one either. There’s right now there’s 50 recovery high schools in the United States. And uh, they started out in Minnesota in the 80s. And, um, what recovery schools are designed to do, they could be they could be, you know, either private or public or charter. They could be any any of the school models, but with recovery components built into every day. So with ours, ours is a private school. And we don’t we don’t charge. We’re still figuring out how to how to be more sustainable than we are. But we have we have and we’re virtual. We’re like one of the only virtual ones in the country. But we we have the where our students get in contact with us. We bring them in then on a daily basis, we have check ins every day. We have different components built into the day. And then we have some sort of recovery aspect built into every week to try to introduce them to, to recovery. And then if you go further, um, the ones in Texas have an alternate peer group that would be your like evening program where they can come back and they can have peer support in the evening as well with them too. And we don’t have that built yet. That’s that’s really where I would like to be one day to, uh, to have more peer support and more, more, more, you know, more like, um, A&A supports built into the day for younger people.

David B. Livingston LMFT: Uh, that’s that’s, uh, that’s fantastic. Um, sounds like it’s I’m not even aware of this before. Um, yeah.

Greg Wooley: Like I said, I had never heard of it before either. And it’s funny, because I was at I had just come out, I just got into a squabble with the church that I was serving in, and I decided to step down from Celebrate Recovery and what I was doing with the guys getting out of prison. And I was looking for something else. And I’m at a Chamber of Commerce meeting in Lake Nona, which is an up and coming community here. And, uh, and there’s a lady there who says, um, I’m here to I’m here to, uh, promote my husband scuba diving business. But I really have a passion for young people who are struggling with addiction issues. And I want to bring a recovery high school into the area. And, uh, and I and I started, uh, um, contacting her to see what that was all about, and, uh, shortly thereafter. And that was before, pre-COVID. Right? And then and, uh, there were some and I don’t know if you’re in your area as if you had, like, the movements with the RCO as a recovery community organization about 4 or 5 years. There’s a real movement here in Florida, and I don’t it was, promoted by or funded by Blue Cross and some sort of grant process.

Greg Wooley: But RCO is recovery community organizations have been through them. And we were we were like, um, instrumental in doing that. And then we pulled off into, uh, to forming the nonprofit for the Get Incorporated and the nonprofit and then the, the private school and all the stuff. And so we’ve been chugging along, trying to trying to do that. And I know I got long-winded on all that, but that’s really where my passion is, is where, you know, because it just breaks my heart because it seems like and I don’t want to bash the system too much, but the system is just set up for, for the war on drug addicts, not the war on drugs. And that we break people and we break people and don’t give them a way to get out where the first time that you start showing signs of being broken from and turned, and end to drugs and alcohol that we should have an alternative method to heal you then not to not to punish you and break you more. Because I don’t think that we’re ever punished the problem away.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: And I think that more.

David B. Livingston LMFT: Sorry. Go ahead.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: You go first, David.

David B. Livingston LMFT: No, no, please. I was just agreeing. I’m I appreciate that. Um, and I think the whole process is, um, I think people don’t know where to turn. And because inevitably, you’re going to, you’re going to find places you like and dislike for a million reasons. But if you can get connected and feel connected somewhere, you know, the whole path of recovery, from my perspective, is the quality of the connection. And then and then you can explore some of the deeper things and really not only the behaviors that keep you healthier, but at a deeper level. Figure out why. Why are you going to why are you going to suffer sort of existentially in order to keep going in this life? And you have if you can answer that deeper question as to why, then a lot of things start to get put in place. And then if you’ve got enough people around you who are helping you figure it out, things, good things can happen, right?

Greg Wooley: That love the hell out of you, so to speak, right? Because we’ll never beat the hell out of people, you know, right?

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: Yeah, I like that. I like that comparison of “love versus beat”. There’s I we also get mixed, very mixed messages where lots of, uh, sometimes draconian and sometimes preventative, whatever they are consequences for being caught, uh, abusing substances or drinking underage or things with young people. At the same time, there’s still a mythology and a fascination with whether it’s coolness that’s always been a factor. But media will show substance abuse is something that is no big, ranging from no big deal to admirable and cool all the way to, I think, the most destructive, which is it’s funny when you watch…

Greg Wooley: I don’t know, where where you guys sit with it. But I don’t think that, you know, our society in general doesn’t have a transitioning point where, where young people go from being young people to being adults. So there’s no transition from boyhood to being to manhood. And a lot of that, I mean, my eyes, it was drinking and smoking and now I’m a man. I’m cool enough, tough enough to handle it. And, uh, so we don’t have any, any system of, of, you know, of, of boy to man to elder. And I think that, that we really, really, you know, uh, I just think that there’s lot of, you know, places of growth in our society or return to, in our society.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: You. Mention a lot about relationships as you’re talking. And there’s this great balance where certainly, you know, we have to individually embrace choices, accountability, making amends, just and that’s very important because I think sometimes, you know, we don’t talk enough about the importance of collaboration. Um, and you talk a lot about that, about the collaboration and the relationships that were important for you with your children, with your with your ex-wife and the positive, healthy things there. And then looking at, uh, the whole thing of recovery high schools, it sounds like, is promoting, uh, good relationships with those young people to collaborate together as well with peers and with, uh, interested adults.

Greg Wooley: Well, I think that whenever you were talking collaboration, I mean, I think that if you if you put people in Young Recovery, you know, then your ego is still so involved. Right? And so then then we make it about then it’s about me. Well, somebody’s got to say something about me, you know, and, uh, and I forget that I don’t see the bigger picture that that I if I can take me out of it. And collaborations work really well together, like I was saying about the partners, because if I, if I can get with somebody who who I can lift them up and we can lift each other up, and then the bigger picture becomes the, the more important thing like the whatever, whatever the mission is, becomes a bigger thing than personalities can be taken out of that. And I think that if you’re if you’re not able to do that, then, then a lot of times that’s where the ego gets in the way. And we’re not able to have a collaboration because I just want it to be about me, or you want it to be about you, and then and then and then personality gets in the way too much of collaborations a lot of times.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: You, uh, you had mentioned when we were setting up the interview, I saw that you’ve been collaborating with setting poetry into music, and I wondered how that collaboration relates to your work in art, as in recovery?

Greg Wooley: Uh, I think all of us have an artist underneath. So,in my in my eyes, you know, my job as a growing person in recovery and, and, uh, and, uh, child of God, if you will. Because if, um, if we’re made in the image of the creator, you know, that that suggests to me that we’re probably supposed to be creative and that and that if you have an outlet to, uh, to help you be more creative along the ways it helps you to feel more whole, and then and then when, when the when the circumstances come along where somebody isn’t lifting you up, you know that you have an inherent value altogether by yourself because you become that creative person that you’re supposed to be.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: I know, David, you’ve talked on the show before about a principle that I has been a lot to me, I think ties into this, which is the power of, uh, boredom, uh, when people are coming into recovery and how boredom can lead to creativity. Uh, because I take away something that was taken all my attention. I don’t know if I’m saying that well, maybe I messed up your principle that you’ve taught, but I just wonder how that relates to creativity and maybe even the use of art in recovery as well.

David B. Livingston LMFT: Um, so, I mean, first of all, I think ultimately the goal is to live a creative life, you know, and whatever you’re doing, I, you know, if you’re a therapist or you’re roofing or you’re helping, you know, kids change their lives or whatever, I mean, the goal of the whole thing is to have is to do it as creatively and as interestingly as possible. You know that when I look at boredom, just to answer your question, I think it’s a state of conflict. And because we’re a dynamic. Right. One of the reasons I love this painting behind me, if you can see it at all, is you see the light and you see the colors and you see the dark. Okay? We all have destructive elements to us. If you think you don’t, you’re mistaken. We all have creative elements. In fact, if you can’t embrace and understand the destructive parts of it, which is part of music, it’s part of poetry. It’s part of every art, any anything that’s alive. Like that painting behind me that speaks of the this constant tension that’s happening in human beings. And so the question is, how do we how do we first get to know it, then how do we have images of ourselves that can include those are destructive parts. Our creative parts our vulnerable parts are the parts that you know where we feel competent and capable, right.

David B. Livingston LMFT: The whole thing. And how do we sort of expand, expand on that. And we need visions for it. Like you were saying, Greg, like, there’s no I think what we, we lack as a vision of, of images of it that we can put forth. And when you meet somebody who’s done a lot of work, one way or another, they can begin to represent that because they’ve had to coalesce these aspects of themselves, you know, and I and I think it’s all getting it’s, it’s it’s all been it all gets distorted too quickly and watered down. And so if you know, when you see someone who’s been able to struggle and come up and deal with those parts of themselves, um, there’s a depth to to that. And usually there’s, there’s a feeling that you can actually get something from this person. And I think that’s what you’re talking about when you and when I hear your story, Greg, I it just I can see that you’ve been through all these things and you found meaning. You know, you found love. You found you’ve been in the darkness. So, you know, good for you, you know, and and and like you’re saying, shouldn’t punish anybody for it. It’s in all of us.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: I know that there does become a mythology sometimes around creativity and art as related to drug and alcohol use, right? That many people feel like that’s part of it. It’s an edgy, cool part of being creative, or that it even opens up creative aspects. And, uh, everyone that I’ve worked with who is a creator of any kind of art said, uh, when they’ve gotten into a real sober mindset and a healthy mindset is said that when they’re living in a healthy way, they produce much better and more art than when they, uh, when they were not as healthy. But people have that, uh, that obstacle sometimes of thinking that this is a thing that’s part of this for me. Outside the box, thinking and and being a rebel.

David B. Livingston LMFT: Right? I mean, I think a lot of drugs are taken because people are too self-conscious and self-consciousness can is is a form of I mean, the Greeks had a word for it called, uh, agon, which meant means to be in the arena, which means that it’s a type of self-consciousness, and it can come from physical pain, it can come from loneliness, it can come from, you know, all kinds of mechanisms. And not having a vision of of what it is to move forward. And, you know, and anytime people are stuck, I think there’s an elevated type of self-consciousness. So people take drugs very often to change their consciousness, um, because they just want to they want to feel like something’s moving again. Right. So that health is a is a constant state in creativity and everything. It’s a state of things moving. And so if you can help reestablish that in a way that’s not dangerous, it helps.

Greg Wooley: Right. Because I think there’s a special kind of high that comes from it that, that, that, that that goes beyond drugs and alcohol and anything else that whenever you tap into that creative ness that’s inside you too.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: What kind of advice would you give to someone who is entering recovery, who may already be, uh, and consider themselves and know their own artistic or creative uh, tendencies, or perhaps is trying to bring those out to help with the their own recovery?

Greg Wooley: I would say, you know. And it depends on where you’re at in it. Because because I, you know, I get approached by a lot of people that want to be writers and, and the whole thing is that if you want to be a writer, you have to start to do it every day. You have to bring it in a daily habit. Because in the beginning, in decades gone by, I would say, okay, I want to do this, and I would just dabble in it and I would do it only when I felt like it. And that doesn’t that doesn’t can’t make you an artist or that can’t make you a writer if you’re only going to do it every once in a while until until I bring it into my daily habits and really make it a part of me. Because now, now, now, it’s like I can’t not do it because it feels like it feels like I’ve left something out of my day. And so I think that if you really want to, if you really want to want to go far in it and not just be a dabbler in it, you have to bring it into your into your daily repertoire, whatever, whatever that outlet of art is, whether it be music and whether it be whatever, whatever that is. Um, if you’re going to go further and it has to be more than just a dabble.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: Do you feel like that helps by changing people’s focus of time spent? I mean, to a certain extent, when you’re trying to get away from substance use every minute you’re doing something else, you’re not drinking.

Greg Wooley: Oh yeah in the beginning. That’s why why I had to go to meetings every day because I couldn’t stand the noise in my head. I mean, so I would say kudos to someone that could do that in the beginning, because I couldn’t stand being alone with the noise in my head. In the beginning, I didn’t really want to talk around anybody. I mean, me communicating the way that I do now is a far, far stretch from when I got sober, because I didn’t. I didn’t talk because without drugs or alcohol, I didn’t have communication skills. But I had a world of noise in my, in my head that, that, that longed, that needed to be quiet. So, um.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: And what is the role that, uh, that poetry and music plays in processing, uh, other, other contributing factors to let’s say, trauma, for example, you’d mentioned going through some of those traumatic experiences.

Greg Wooley: Well, for me, because if you if you read much of my writing, you’ll see that usually I, I try to go to the dark side and then and then end, end in the light side and, and, uh, and so I’ll, I’ll touch or reveal some of my pain and then, and then go through the process and, and try to bring it out the other side a lot of times. So, so I think that for, for, for me it’s been. Because whenever, whenever I come into recovery, I was just angry. I didn’t have any other emotion. I had no emotional arena. I had no no realm of emotions. I was just angry and didn’t know. Didn’t know why, so to speak. And, uh, in order to be able to, for me to be able to explore and have a, um, a full realm of emotions, a full, a full life of emotions, I’ve been able to write about it and process it, and it’s been it’s been a long, a long haul for me, you know, um, even to be able to talk about it because in the beginning, it was it was way out of my comfort zone and way out of my space because I was a roofer and I was a man and I didn’t know how to deal with, um, I’m a I’m a hurt child inside that just needs to cry sometimes, you know? And so it was it was a long stretch for me to be able to get comfortable doing that.

Greg Wooley: Like even when I first started writing poetry, you know, what is it a manly, even art? And it’s funny because I, I have a past sponsor now where we’re the only two people I’d really share them with was was him and my wife. You know, my wife has always been my biggest encourager. And, uh, and then Ron started sharing them with everybody. He was my he was my editor in chief. And then he started sharing them with my circle with like. And people wouldn’t even know that it was me that wrote it. Hey, did you did you see this? Where did this come from? I’m like, “I wrote that this morning.”

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: So there’s a real relationship then between, uh, as you talked about giving back. And that’s one of the reasons you work with the nonprofits. Um, but something like art that has poetry as a coping mechanism and a processing tool for you. It sounds like it eventually then became a way of also giving back.

Greg Wooley: Oh, absolutely. Because, I mean, I would hope that it would it would invite you to, to to to look at those hurt feelings, those hurt spots in you and then and then and then be able to find a way through the darkness and see the light on the other side would always be my hope, you know?

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: Um, yeah. That must have been something to cross. Uh, then not only are your poems then being shared eventually, and certainly now with books of poetry out there shared with whoever’s going to read those. Right. Were there obstacles to overcome there and that feeling?

Greg Wooley: I had this, this, this cover made up like two years before, before it ever became a book. And it was like, like a strange season, you know, because I wanted to do it so bad and then couldn’t seem to do it. And every time I would come up, it would be too hard. And then you had this guy that, you know, was just, you know, whenever you get into the editors and the editing and the book process, it’s it’s harder than just like with, with a nonprofit, you know, a lot of stuff just always seems harder than, than it has to be. Not now. It’s not not that hard. But it was really, really hard for me in the beginning. Yeah.

David B. Livingston LMFT: And that’s incredible that you got all that accomplished. That’s a lot to say.

Greg Wooley: Yeah, well thank you. But yeah. So so you asked me before how I came to start writing every day. So, um, like I said, I had roofed all my life and I got married again, and, uh, um, it’s been 17 years ago now. Um, my wife came home from work and was right after Christmas that year, and, uh, and I had a little pain. And I’m a tough roofer guy. I don’t go to the doctors for, like, hardly anything. Right. And I had a pain that I was like, oh, no, uh, it got real bad, like real fast. And I thought, like, I burst an appendix or something. And I ended up having, um, diverticulitis and I perforated. I, I never even heard of diverticulitis before this time. Right. And, uh, and then I ended up I ended up that that year being in the hospital for, for, um, for like, um, six weeks that year. And I ended up, you know, going septic and couldn’t breathe. And like, this whole job, this whole job out of the Bible kind of scenario where everything seemed to go wrong, like I had already quit smoking for a bunch of years and I couldn’t breathe. But anyhow, I come out of that with a great feeling of, you know, you’ve had all this music in you head that’s going on all the time. Because I always have like a sing song, something or another going on. And I said, and you’re going to die, you’re going to die, and God’s going to be, oh, you roofed, you did one more roof, and you never wrote all these little messages I was giving you, and you never shared them with the world. What are you doing here? So that’s when I started writing. Writing every day was whenever I had that real big health scare. And I thought that I. That I was a goner.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: Made you re-evaluate what you wanted to accomplish.

Greg Wooley: Right, what was important. You know. So I think that, you know, now I’m some 5000 poems later that that, uh, you know, if nothing else, my kids will be like, this was your grandpa, you know.

David B. Livingston LMFT: We all, I mean. Uh, that that you began to speak and you began to then, um, write and, and, um, and all that noise in your head, you found a way to to change it.

Greg Wooley: The channel.

David B. Livingston LMFT: Yeah. I really think that that, it’s interesting. That most of what therapy is per se is listening because it’s the other person speaking and all those voices in the head because we all have them and they’re all going for all of us all the time. It’s amazing the process of just beginning to talk or to write or to do something, you know, where the inside is, is now on the outside and gets heard by somebody. It’s it’s incredible how powerful that is and in any venue that it can happen.

Greg Wooley: Right. And then and then if we’re vulnerable about it, it gives others the people that the power empowers them to, to then share their, their inside stuff.

David B. Livingston LMFT: Mm. You bet.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: Bring up that vulnerability. That’s very interesting to me because I find that, uh, we don’t like to paint with broad brushes here, but many times, addiction can drive people into a sort of all-or-nothing state of thinking. Right? Uh, and then sometimes even trying to be in a sober state of mind, especially, you know, we get into that thought where it’s like I’m either well, I’m either relapsing or being sober today. Right? And so it’s still we get stuck in an all or nothing, and it hits me that art is very much about, well, try this then try this. And the poem that I will hate a year from now is the one that will lead me to the one that I love a year and a half from now or whatever, you know.

Greg Wooley: RIght. Because that whenever, whenever you question me and some of that and one of my friends put out a book called Start Ugly, and that’s a really hard, hard place for for me to go, because I want it to be really, really nice. And I won’t never get going because it can’t never be nice enough. So starting ugly is, uh, is a good place to start.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: Well, Greg, this is such a powerful message that you have. And so, so great of you to spend the time with us today. I wanted to finish up today’s show by asking you a little bit about what’s next for you. Are there projects, collaborations or things that you’re excited about that, uh, you’d like to share with us?

Greg Wooley: Uh, I certainly would. Right now, I’m I’m going through the process with the city. I, I just did my fingerprinting, um, because we’ve had some changes with the high school. I’m not, I’m not. I now went from not only being the co-founder and chairman of the board, but also I don’t know whether it’s interim or long-term executive director, too. So we’re bringing the Recovery High School back into Saint Cloud. And I have a place that’s donated for us where we can have a permanent in-person location. So we got that going on. And, uh, and hopefully that’ll put us in a place in a better place to get long-term funding because there’s, there’s some, some funders that will fund for an in-person location and they won’t for virtual. So we have that going on. But right now is um, a friend of mine had been doing, um, songs with spoken word poetry, poetry in it because I’ve yet to dare sing, yet to dare sing, but I can do spoken word poetry. So he sings and plays a guitar and we do spoken word poetry. We’ve been doing that different churches and stuff around a little bit. So I’m moving in. We’re moving into that a little more and then May 4th, May the 4th be with us. We’re having our second annual May-Day Five-k, which is a fundraiser for For the Recovery High School. And uh, and uh, I’ve participated in some other five K’s which, which are nice. I mean, don’t get me wrong, but I want it to be more of an event. So we’re doing songs and live poetry. And a friend of mine does, um, lectio divina meditation, sort of a contemplative, uh, meditation and drums for recovery is going to be there, and it should be a good, a good half day event on on May 5th that I’m really excited about coming up.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: Wonderful.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: Very exciting. Is there a place online where people can go to kind of follow these things, or to keep up to date on learn more about the Florida Recovery Schools?

Greg Wooley: Yeah, Florida Recovery Schools of Central Florida on Facebook or FloridaRecoverySchoolsOfCentralFlorida.org is our is our website too so or friend me Greg Woolley on on Facebook  I post a poem most every day.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: Good resources. And I will say one thing to add on the end that I noticed if it wasn’t, uh, real obvious from reading your bio, you, you know, you still are working in the roofing industry and things like that. So I think people should understand that all these things you’re doing are things you are adding to your probably already full life, right? As far as it goes. Trying to reach out and…

Greg Wooley: Trying to move into two, you know, as my, my you know, I’m. Yeah. Because my, my older years are coming and I just want to be a more service as well.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: And and it really deepens the, the amount of, uh, gift that you’re giving to people as well. So I just wanted to highlight that very much so. Well, for everyone out there, uh, you make sure that you’re going to FloridaRecoverySchoolsOfCentralFlorida.org that you’re following this and learning this. I’m sure there’s ways you can get involved, just like there are with any nonprofit. And if you are searching for a way to reach out, as we like to say on on this program, if you wonder if, uh, addiction and mental health issues are touching your life. They are. There’s no you know, that’s the that is the answer. They either people that you know directly yourself or or those in your community and it affects everything around us. So. Uh, we also want to hear from you if you come to our website, opiates.com, you learn more about what we do at Waismann Method. But, uh, you can also send us your questions that you’d like us to, uh, talk about here on the show with questions, topics, guest recommendations or any kind of, uh, questions or requests or anything you have for us. You can email us at info@opiates.com, or reach out at opiates on our social media platforms as well. You can also tune in here. If you are watching our show or you are using or you are watching where or this podcast is available for all podcast platforms, or if you will refer to some of our clips and videos too. It does good for people and it helps us to show up more as people’s feeds, which is what we want to do is to share these things. So this podcast is, of course, a production of Waismann Method Opioid Treatment Specialists and Rapid Detox. Um, the music that we use is the song Medical by Clean Mind Sounds. And I’ll just say for, uh, our guests today. Thank you so much again, Greg, for being here.

Greg Wooley: Thank you for having me.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: And, uh, David has always gotten to spend time with you, but, yeah, maybe not.

David B. Livingston LMFT: Thank you. Dwight. Really nice to meet you, Greg.

Greg Wooley: You as well. David.

David B. Livingston LMFT: Appreciate hearing about all you are doing. So thank you!

Greg Wooley: Thank you. Thank you for letting me share.

Dwight Hurst, CMHC: And to everyone else out there, uh, we love you, you are great people, great listeners. And, uh, just want to remind everyone to keep asking questions. If you ask questions, you can find answers. And anytime you find answers, you can find hope. So thanks again. And, uh, we’ll be back with you again soon.